Dirk Verburg

With the publication of his bestseller ‘HR Champions’ in 1997, Dave Ulrich signaled the potential for HR functions to develop themselves from ‘administrative support functions’ into strategic and mission-critical ones (my words—not Dave’s!).

The book served as a catalyst for a vast number of HR organizations to critically review their roles, activity portfolios and structures. As a result, many organizations defined HR strategies, and initiated HR transformation projects to realize these.

All in all, Dave published over 200 articles and book chapters and over 30 books. He edited Human Resource Management 1990-1999, served on the editorial board of 4 other journals and on the Board of Directors for Herman Miller (16 years), has spoken to large audiences in 90 countries; performed workshops for over half of the Fortune 200; coached successful business leaders, and is a Distinguished Fellow in the National Academy of Human Resources.

During our conversation, Dave and I discussed the following topics:

0️⃣1️⃣ Dave’s drive to write his seminal book ‘Human Resource Champions’
0️⃣2️⃣ Why do many HR organizations display less confidence in their capabilities than other support functions like Finance and Legal?
0️⃣3️⃣ ‘HR is not your friend’. Really?
0️⃣4️⃣ Does the current data-centricity in HR functions not lead to the detriment of intuition and human judgment in HR?
0️⃣5️⃣ What the agenda for HR should look like in 2024
0️⃣6️⃣ ‘The final problem’: Where should the ultimate accountability and responsibility for staff in organizations rest?

You can watch or listen to the podcast with our conversation on:

➡️ YouTube
➡️ Apple Podcasts
➡️ Spotify

➡️ No time to watch or listen to podcast now? Here is a short summary of our conversation ⤵

Dirk Verburg: Your 1997 book, “Human Resource Champions,” really put the HR function on the map.¹ What drove you to write this book, which highlighted the changing mandate of HR and how it could be a strategic partner?

Dave Ulrich: I was a “hummingbird” who saw great companies using HR as a forum to integrate people and organization issues. While people and organization ideas had been around for a long time, there was no centralized function to manage them. I was lucky to hit the timing just right. The book captured the idea that to manage these issues in a thoughtful way, a dedicated place in the company was needed, much like finance for economics or marketing for customers. The HR function became that place, allowing these crucial ideas to be integrated and acted upon more rigorously.

Dirk Verburg: The book and the model were a tremendous success, with many companies implementing what’s often called the “Ulrich Model.”² Did you expect it to be so successful?

Dave Ulrich: I had no clue it would be so successful. I had written other books that didn’t have the same impact. I have never called it the “Ulrich Model”—other people do that. I was just that hummingbird who stole ideas from other smart people and put them together in a way that resonated with the times. It was a pleasant surprise.

Dirk Verburg: I often observe that the HR function seems to have an existential doubt, constantly seeking affirmation of its value. Do you recognize this insecurity, and where do you think it stems from?

Dave Ulrich: I agree that HR can be too self-obsessed. The issue is that HR is not about HR; it’s about creating value for all the humans who interact with an organization—employees, executives, customers, investors, and communities.³ The insecurity stems from starting the conversation with ourselves rather than with the value we create for these stakeholders. When we walk into an executive meeting, the first slides shouldn’t be about HR initiatives. They should be about stakeholder outcomes. For example, “Our customers are leaving, therefore, we need to improve our leadership.” This approach requires HR professionals to develop new skills and understand business metrics. If we can’t do this, we become a secondary citizen.

Dirk Verburg: What are your thoughts on the popular phrase “HR is not your friend”?

Dave Ulrich: I see it as a paradox. On one hand, the most important thing HR can give an employee is a company that succeeds in the marketplace, because without that, there is no workplace. So, in that sense, we are your friend by helping the company succeed. On the other hand, being a friend sometimes requires tough love. We have to provide structure, advice, and difficult feedback. I tell leaders that they should be focused on how their actions create value for investors, customers, and the community. If they’re not, then they’re not doing their job. By doing this, we help the company succeed and the employee wins in the long run.

Dirk Verburg: You emphasize the importance of data, but do you think almost everything can be expressed in data? Or is it a case of prioritizing structured and unstructured data?

Dave Ulrich: Data is simply information to make better decisions. The world’s data is 20% structured (statistics, analytics) and 80% unstructured (intuition, observation, experience). Both are essential. I coached a senior leader who, despite having ample data, needed to trust his instinct, his “unstructured data,” to make a critical decision. Conversely, a young startup CEO with no experience needed to gather structured data. The key is understanding which type of data to prioritize based on experience. HR professionals sometimes hide behind structured data when they need the courage to trust their instincts. It’s about combining both to make holistic decisions.

Dirk Verburg: As we are in 2024, what are the three or four things you would expect a CHRO and their team to be working on right now?

Dave Ulrich: I would focus on three things. First, HR is not about HR.⁴ The HR discussion should start with stakeholders and the value we create for them. Second, we must create value through human capability, which has three parts.⁵ Talent, giving employees a sense of hope, commitment, and confidence. Organization, building cultures that are aligned with customers and foster innovation. And leadership, creating leaders at all levels who can make a real difference. Third, we must upgrade the HR function itself. While restructuring is popular, our research shows that what matters most are the relationships within the HR team and with other departments.

Dirk Verburg: We’ve covered a number of aspects. Is there anything we missed that you would like to emphasize?

Dave Ulrich: I still teach at the University of Michigan, and my final exam question is always: “Who has primary accountability for human capability?” Most students say it’s shared between HR and business leaders. I mark this wrong. The primary accountability and responsibility lie with the business leader. The HR professional’s role is to be the architect, providing the frameworks and infrastructure, but the business leader is the one who must own the implementation. CEOs are now recognizing that people and organization issues are as critical as technology and global uncertainty, and they must take accountability for them.

Dirk Verburg: I’d like to turn the tables on you. What do you see as one or two of the hottest people and organization issues that companies are wrestling with today?

Dirk Verburg: Engagement and leadership are the hottest topics. Engagement is about inspiring motivation, purpose, and a sense of belonging in a world of uncertainty. In the past, the transaction was simple: time for money. Now, employees expect a sense of purpose and psychological safety from their leaders. The role of leadership has evolved significantly. It’s not just about senior executives; it’s about every leader, from the top down, inspiring and contributing to the engagement of their teams. I would add one word to this: sustained engagement, which is built through consistent, caring leadership.

Dirk Verburg: Thank you so much, Dave, for sharing your time and insights.

Dave Ulrich: Thank you, Dirk. It’s been a real pleasure.