Leadership development

The Executive Coaching Business – Interview Stefan Stenzel

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

Only a decade ago, executive coaching was associated with either very senior business leaders coached by well-known authors and thought leaders, or with leaders who were struggling in their roles and were given a coach as a last resort.

Today, executive coaching has become mainstream — and it has changed significantly. 

First, despite the name, it is no longer the prerogative of C-level executives or their direct reports. Many companies now offer coaching to leaders at all levels of the organisation. 

Second, it is no longer seen as a remedy for underperformance. Instead, executive coaches are increasingly viewed the way we view coaches in sport: helping already high-performing individuals to become even better. As an executive coach myself for instance, I support business leaders at all levels with a wide range of challenges: transitioning into new roles, defining strategies for their teams and organisations, enhancing the collaboration with their own leaders and teams, and navigating change.

As a result, executive coaching has evolved from a niche activity into a serious industry. And, like any growing industry, this raises questions about developing and maintaining professional standards, pricing, quality and technology.

Stefan Stenzel has been active in the coaching business since the early 2000s and published ‘Die Zukunft des Coaching-Business’ (‘The Future of the Coaching Business’) in 2022. 

I recently sat down with him for two conversations to explore the state of the executive coaching business today.

In our first conversation, we focused on ‘The Executive Coaching Business’ and covered the following topics:

  • The value of executive coaching
  • Measuring the ROI of executive coaching
  • The characteristics of a good executive coach
  • Assessing the quality of an executive coach
  • Does the downward pressure on fees impact the quality of executive coaches?
  • The red and blue oceans for executive coaches
  • The place for independent coaches in the world of Digital Coaching Platforms (DCPs)
  • Face-to-face versus digital coaching
  • External coaches versus internal coaches


► You can watch or listen to a podcast with our conversation on:

➡️ Apple Podcasts

➡️ Spotify

➡️ YouTube

➡️ No time to watch or listen to podcast now? Here is a short summary of the key points of our conversation ⤵

Dirk Verburg: What is the value of executive coaching for large international organizations, and for what purposes are coaches typically engaged at companies like SAP?

Stefan Stenzel: The primary answer is innovation. Engaging external coaches provides a new perspective, time for reflection, and a “helicopter view” to address dysfunctional behavior. Coaching is highly effective when embedded into larger programs, helping leaders digest and individualize what they have learned so the knowledge sticks. It facilitates “vertical development”—thinking about how and why you think—which goes beyond normal skills training.

As leaders reach the executive level, they must shift from technical expertise to “winning the hearts, heads, and hands” of their people. At this stage, you cannot simply instruct mature people; you must influence them informally. Coaching also addresses “executive presence”—the ability to project confidence on big stages—and provides a safe space to navigate the stress and power plays inherent in high-level corporate environments.

Dirk Verburg: How can organizations measure the return on investment for coaching?

Stefan Stenzel: This is the “million-dollar question.” First, it is important to have solid descriptive measures—knowing how many coaching engagements are happening, where, and with whom. This foundation is essential, yet many companies lack it.

The “master class” involves measuring impact via correlations. However, executive coaching is often driven by the leader’s own conviction, and executives are rarely willing to fill out long questionnaires. Currently, we measure this via employee surveys focused on leadership KPIs, comparing data before and after the coaching period.

Ultimately, you must ask what will be done with the numbers. Measuring must make sense for the company. I compare coaching to car maintenance: you can skip it to save money immediately, but the eventual “repairs” or leadership failures are far more expensive. We must also challenge “status coaching,” where high fees are paid for big names without clear evidence of superior impact.

Dirk Verburg: In your professional opinion, what are the characteristics of a good executive coach, and is business acumen or content knowledge important?

Stefan Stenzel: It often starts with the “brand”—the ability to create an “eye-level” discussion where the coach is accepted by the executive. Having a similar career background can create immediate credibility and rapport.

However, a coach needs to “unlearn” the habit of giving immediate advice. I look for solid education and accreditation, such as from the ICF or DBVC. Many people have business experience but lack the formal training required to be a professional coach.

A good coach needs the self-confidence to challenge executives and deep business knowledge to offer new perspectives. If a coach does not offer innovation, they are not earning their fee. While credentials provide a foundation, the “chemistry” and rapport between the coach and the client are the final selection criteria.

Dirk Verburg: The title “Executive Coach” is not protected, and the number of coaches is mushrooming. How can organizations or individuals accurately assess coach quality?

Stefan Stenzel: Accreditations are vital because they prove the individual has undergone the hard work of formal education. These provide foundational criteria for selection.

However, even with credentials, an informed decision is necessary. In a large company, my job is to pre-select coaches to ensure quality standards are met before the coaching begins. It is like car manufacturing: you must embed quality at the beginning of the process.

Dirk Verburg: Digital coaching platforms are creating downward pressure on rates. Is coaching at risk of becoming a “hollowed-out” profession, and is it still sustainable?

Stefan Stenzel: Platforms are a natural consequence of digitalization. For the customer, they provide transparency and ease of comparison that was missing 20 years ago.

For coaches, it is harder to stand out. If you are just one of thousands on a platform, it is a “red ocean” of competition. To escape this, coaches must differentiate themselves through their brand and expertise—moving from “bestseller coaching” to “craft coaching.”

Top-tier coaches rarely need platforms because their brands are established. For others, they must treat their practice as a business. If you are a business coach, you should be able to run your own practice successfully. While platforms handle distribution and data, the core relationship between the coach and the client remains unchanged.

Dirk Verburg: Is there still a place for face-to-face coaching, or has technology made physical presence unnecessary?

Stefan Stenzel: Yes, but the customer will decide. The “art of coaching” involves blending virtual and in-person offers professionally. Face-to-face is compelling when topics become highly complex, emotional, or involve “embodiment coaching.”

There is also value in “outdoor coaching,” where fresh air and a change of environment can open a person up to new perspectives. However, because executives face heavy time pressure, coaches must be able to prove the additional value of meeting in person. Professionalism means knowing when to deviate from a digital script based on the client’s needs.

Dirk Verburg: I am skeptical about internal coaching pools regarding distance and confidentiality. Where do they work, and what are their constraints?

Stefan Stenzel: I have been an internal coach for 25 years and have rarely encountered trust issues. The real challenge is that you are part of the system. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage.

The benefit is understanding internal processes and linking coaching directly to them. The disadvantage is that you are affected by the same reorganizations as your clients. Maintaining “working distance” requires high professionalism to avoid simply being compassionate without adding a new perspective.

We have 650 internal coaches, and the company is convinced of their value. To be successful, they must be professionally educated to ensure they have a real impact while navigating the internal system.

► About Stefan Stenzel
 
Stefan Stenzel (Dipl.-Psych.) studied Organizational Psychology at Heidelberg and Mannheim with a minor in business administration. He has almost 30 years of experience in PD and OD. Since 2001 he is working at SAP SE in the role of a HR Senior Expert for Learning in the team of Global Leadership Development with varying areas of responsibilities. Based on his initial coaching training in 1998, he is working as an internal coach at SAP since 2002. With short interruptions he is globally responsible for the external coach pool across all management levels and is currently implementing a coachbot to complement the service portfolio. He is Co-founder of DBVC e.V. in 2004. In 2023 he co-founded in this context with, Dr. Uwe Böning. the so-called Think Tank “Future of Coaching” . He is author of various publications on the topic of (the future of) coaching. 
 
Stefan Stenzel Linkedin

Webpage Stefan Stenzel

Book: Die Zukunft des Coaching-Business

Contact Stefan Stenzel: kontakt@coaching-reset.de


► Disclaimer

The statements and expressed opinions of Stefan Stenzel are his own and do not represent the views, positions, or policies of SAP SE.

Any comments he made are purely personal and should not be interpreted as being endorsed with SAP SE.

For any official information or statements, please refer directly to SAP SE.

Why Knowing Your ‘Why’ Makes You a Better Leader

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

All business leaders I know are able to explain What they do, almost all of them How they do it, but only a minority can explain Why they do what they do, and that is a missed opportunity, both for themselves and their teams.

Man’s Search for Meaning

Most people I know regularly reflect on the meaning and purpose of life. In 1946, Viktor Frankl, an Austrian psychiatrist and psychotherapist, wrote one of the most important and influential books on this topic: ‘Man’s Search for Meaning‘.

It is a short but poignant and profound book that contains Frankl’s reflections on this question during his time in Nazi concentration camps, where he and his family were imprisoned because they were Jewish. In these camps, Viktor Frankl lost his father, mother, and wife.

In ‘Man’s Search for Meaning’., he formulated the thesis that inmates in the camps, who had a sense of meaning in their lives, were more likely to survive.

Therefore, he recommends us to stop asking for “THE” meaning of life, and instead think about: What does life expect of me right now? In order to do this, we need to understand our unique and specific meaning.

“This meaning is unique and specific in that it must and can be fulfilled by him alone; only then does it achieve a significance which will satisfy his own will to meaning.” — Viktor Frankl

According to Frankl, understanding our unique and specific meaning (a.k.a. our “Why”) is important for our happiness and our ability to cope with suffering. This is the same point Friedrich Nietzsche made when he stated that “He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how”.

‘Start with Why’

In 2009, Simon Sinek published “Start with Why“, which introduced the importance of meaning and purpose in the world of business. This book underlined the importance for leaders to understand and express their “Why” in order to inspire others.

A great way to illustrate this is to look at the market for laptops.

Most people buy laptops based on the price-performance ratio. They look at which brand offers the best processor, memory, storage, display, and battery life for the lowest cost at a given moment. If Lenovo has the best deal, they will buy Lenovo; if HP, Acer, or Dell has the best deal, they will buy an HP, Acer, or Dell laptop.

Most Apple consumers completely bypass the brand selection process and confine their choice to the Apple ecosystem. The reason is that they believe in the brand or, to put it differently, the “Why” of Apple. Apple buyers connect to the brand because they identify with, for instance, the Crazy Ones. They are willing to pay a premium for a product that resonates with their identity.

Why is this relevant to me?

Understanding and being able to articulate our “Why” is incredibly important for two reasons.

First of all, it helps us stay true to ourselves when confronted with decisions. Instead of making decisions solely on their own merits and the specific circumstances at the moment in time where we need to make the decision, understanding our “Why” helps us make decisions that are congruent with our values.

Secondly, and here is why it is so important for leaders, it helps us connect with others faster and on a deeper level. Irrespective of whether we are formally in a leadership position or not, we need to give people a reason to follow us.

Why is all this relevant for my organization?

To boil down 100+ years of motivational theory in the crudest way possible: there are three ways to motivate our staff.

At the most basic level, we can ensure our staff delivers the required output (‘WHAT‘) through a combination of sticks and carrots. The issue is, of course, that control is required to ensure compliance, loyalty will be low — staff can easily be tempted by organisations that offer more carrots and fewer sticks — and discretionary effort is likely to be the exception rather than the rule.

At a more advanced level, we can make sure people enjoy the content of their work (‘HOW‘). Many consultants and investment bankers may be cynical about the contribution their companies make to society, but they almost always find the content of their work intellectually challenging. The difficulty is that there will almost always be organisations that can compete on content while also offering more in the sticks and carrots department.

Therefore, the most powerful way to motivate people is to appeal to a shared purpose (‘WHY‘). The reason people wanted to follow the likes of Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy, Nelson Mandela, or business leaders like Steve Jobs, Paul Polman, or nowadays Elon Musk, was not necessarily because they were nice or kind — because they often were not — but because they were able to formulate and communicate an irresistible Why.

Now, not all of us are Nelson Mandelas or Steve Jobses, and not all of us work for organisations that are changing the destinies of nations, dramatically improving human rights situations, or transforming entire industries. However, all of us have the potential to scale this principle to inspire others.

A good example is army regiments. Speaking with military personnel, I was struck by the fact that their loyalty lies not so much at the king-and-country level, but closer to home — with their colleagues and their regiment. That regiment may not have had a visible success in over 100 years, yet that is beside the point. They believe in the narrative — the values — of the regiment.

Just take a minute to imagine what you could achieve if your team consisted of self-motivated members who believed in a collective mission…

Do you know your Why — and does your team?

If you and your team do not know your Why or theirs, you are probably leaving your most powerful motivational lever untouched. I recently became a Certified Why Coach through Simon Sinek’s company, trained to help individuals and teams discover and articulate their purpose — and how to put it to work.

If you’re curious about what purpose-driven leadership could look like for you and your team, reach out to schedule a conversation.

Successfully Managing Executive Transitions – Interview Navid Nazemian

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

Almost 90% of senior HR leaders agree that transitions into new roles are the most challenging periods in a leader’s professional life. However, organizational appetite to invest in these transitions remains minimal.

As business leaders, we seem to accept a 40% failure rate among newly appointed executives as an unavoidable risk.

The consequences of these failures are significant for both the individual and their organization.

For the individual, a failed transition damages their professional reputation and potentially their livelihood. For their organization, it results in direct financial costs (recruitment), opportunity costs, diminished employee engagement, and a degraded Employer Value Proposition (EVP).

In the 37th episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I speak with Navid Nazemian—my brother-in-arms in the Executive Transition Coaching space—about how organizations can mitigate the risks of executive appointments by engaging an executive coach.

During our conversation, we discussed:

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Do not leave the Onboarding if Executives to chance – Why you should consider Transition Coaching

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

The statistics around executive transition failure rates of newly appointed executives are staggering: 

  • Nearly half of all leadership transitions fail (McKinsey)
  • Not only external hires fail: research from DDI shows that 35% of all executives promoted internally are considered failures
  • The costs of C-level failures are, in the vast majority of cases, higher than USD 2 million, but can be as high as USD 30 million. In their Harvard Business Review article, Claudio Fernández-Aráoz, Gregory Nagel, and Carrie Green estimate that the costs of mismanaged CEO transitions in the S&P 1500 alone already result in nearly USD1 trillion in market value loss on a yearly basis.

Unfortunately, the number of leaders and organizations that actually invest in addressing this problem is relatively small. And that is an issue for both the individuals concerned and their organizations.

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The Dark Side of Leadership – Interview Manfred Kets de Vries

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

Unfortunately, today, a single television news bulletin, or a glance at the front page of a newspaper, is enough to reveal the dark side of leadership.

However, many people do not need to switch on the TV or read the paper to witness this; instead, they experience the dark side of leadership every day within their own organizations. They happen to work for ‘Psychopath Lights’—or, as Manfred Kets de Vries calls them, ‘Seductive Operational Bullies’ (SOBs).

In the 36th episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I sit down with Manfred to explore his extensive research on this phenomenon. During our conversation, we discussed the following topics:

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Toxic Leadership – Does Your Leader Have A Dark Triad?

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

‘Guys, I will always have your back’, she said when she became our leader … until she did not.

We all know the stories about how notorious dictators like Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Saddam Hussein, not only ruled their countries with an iron fist, but had an inner circle of followers that were on the one hand attracted to them and craving for their approval, and on the other hand continuously on their toes, out of fear of falling out of favor and being ‘purged’ as a result. A contemporary example of such a dictator is Kim Jong Un.

Nowadays, we would say these dictators had a ‘dark triad’. 

What Is The Dark Triad?

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‘Maximizing the Business Opportunity of Generational Diversity’ – An Interview with Rebecca Robins and Patrick Dunne (‘Five Generations at Work’)

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

❗ ‘We live in the most Generationally Diverse Demographic’ (Rebecca Robins).

🚫 Unfortunately, generational differences are often seen as a source of problems – sometimes misunderstood, and exaggerated by social media.

⁉️ However, what would happen if we saw Generational Differences as Opportunities instead of Issues?

📖 This is precisely the topic of the book ‘Five Generations at Work: How We Win Together, For Good’ by Rebecca Robins CMgr CCMI and Patrick Dunne.

🎙️ In the 30th episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I interview Rebecca Robins CMgr CCMI and Patrick Dunne about ‘Maximising the business opportunity of generational diversity’

During our conversation, we discussed the following topics:

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The Strategic Value of Learning & Development – An interview with Nick van Dam

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

🚫 Many organizations mistakenly relegate Learning & Development (L&D) to a “nice-to-have” status. It’s seen as something every HR organization needs to have (if only for the optics), but often the prevailing attitude is that, while great L&D is a pleasant surprise, if it falls short, there’s no serious harm done to the organization.

❗This is often reflected in bland L&D offerings, which, more often than not, are so generic, that they fail to address the strategic issues organizations need to address

⁉️ However, what would happen if organizations truly would treat Learning & Development as a strategic instrument?

🎙️ In the 29th episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I interview Nick van Dam about ‘The Strategic Value of Learning & Development’. Nick van Dam is an internationally recognized thought leader, advisor, executive coach, researcher, facilitator, and best-selling (co-) author of more than 29 books on Leadership, Organizational Behavior, and Corporate Learning & Talent Management.

► During our conversation, we discussed the following topics:

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Heroic Leadership – An interview with Chris Lowney

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Many people in the workplace wrestle with combining their ethical and spiritual convictions on the one hand, with what they feel is required of them to progress their careers, or simply to stay in their roles, on the other.

For people who want to address this tension, ‘Heroic Leadership – Best Practices from a 450-Year-Old Company That Changed the World’ by Chris Lowney. ‘ will be a great read!

Chris Lowney, is a one-time Jesuit seminarian, who currently chairs the board of CommonSpirit Health, America’s largest not-for-profit healthcare system with 140 hospitals and more than 150,000 employees. Previously, he served as a Managing Director of J.P. Morgan & Co. in Tokyo, Singapore, London and New York.

In the 28th episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I interview Chris Lowney about Heroic Leadership. During our conversation, we discussed the following topics:

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Book Review: ‘What’s Your Type?’ – The history of the MBTI

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Because I extensively use the MBTI when coaching executives, and because of my general interest in the work of the Swiss Psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), I was looking forward to read ‘What’s Your Type? – The Strange History of Myers-Briggs and the Birth of Personality Testing’ by Merve Emre.

For those not familiar with the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), the MBTI has been developed by Katherine Briggs (1875-1968) and her daughter Isabel Myers (1897-1980) on the basis of Jung’s Personality (‘Type’) Theory. It enables the categorization of individual personalities in 4 dimensions, resulting in the (well-known) 16 different ‘types’ (e.g., ‘ISTJ’ or ‘ENFP’).

Function PreferencePreference
Energy I – Introversion (ideas) E – Extroversion (people)
Perception S – Sensing (data) N – Intuition (intuition)
Judgment T – Thinking F – Feeling
Attitude towards outside world J – Judging P – Perceiving

Until a decade ago, the MBTI was one of the most popular personality assessment instruments, and, although it is far less popular today than it used to be, it is still extensively (ab)used.

For this reason, I was very curious to read the book. Unfortunately, I found it a mixed bag.

What I do not like about this book

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‘Employment is Dead’ – An interview with Deborah Perry Piscione

Dirk VerburgLeave a comment

Earlier this week, one of the most important business books on the Future of Work was published by Harvard Business Review Press: ‘Employment Is Dead: How Disruptive Technologies Are Revolutionizing the Way We Work’ by Deborah Perry Piscione and Josh Drean.

The central theme of this book is that traditional employment models are becoming outdated due to the evolving needs and expectations of the modern workforce, in combination with, and enabled by, disruptive technologies.

This will lead to the end of the traditional employment model, as well as the traditional form of companies, as we know them today.

Monday, just hours before the book was released, I had the chance to interview Deborah Perry Piscione for my Leadership 2.0 Podcast.

► In our conversation, we touched on the following topics:

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The Company Culture of On – An interview with Alessandra Del Pino

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There are some companies I deeply admire, and On, the Swiss sports and apparel brand is definitely one of them! Not only do they make amazing products and have an extremely powerful brand, they also have a unique company culture.

For this reason, I was thrilled to sit down with Alessandra Del Pino, Head of Engagement & Talent Growth at On, to discuss the company culture of On, or, as Alessandra describes it, their ‘secret sauce’.

During our conversation, we covered the following topics:

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‘What is Humanistic Management?’ – An Interview with Professor Michael Pirson

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‘Everyone who wins nowadays is challenging the Shareholder Value Maximization doctrine’

This is just one of the powerful and thought-provoking statements Professor Michael Pirson (Fordham University – Gabelli School of Business) made when I interviewed him about ‘Humanistic Management’.

In the last decades, the shortcomings of the neo-liberal economic order in our society have become clearer than ever (e.g. the credit crunch, climate change, and wars). An increasing number of people want to move away from a system that commoditizes human beings, and the natural environment in which they live.

They seek, amongst others, dignity, a sense of purpose, and attention to well-being, instead of material prosperity only.

Humanistic Management is a relatively young academic movement that seeks to create a more balanced relationship between those things that can be exchanged on markets and those that are not but make life worthwhile.

Michael Pirson is an active member of this movement, and in this episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I discuss with him

1️⃣ What Humanistic Management is
2️⃣ How Michael discovered Humanistic Management
3️⃣ What we as mankind can learn from the Covid 19 Pandemic
4️⃣ Measuring Wealth versus Wellbeing
5️⃣ Will Shareholder Value (Economistic Management) not always prevail?
6️⃣ Is Humanistic Management industry agnostic?
7️⃣ Resources on Humanistic Management
8️⃣ Final Thoughts

👇 You can watch or listen to this podcast episode on


➡️ YouTube
➡️ Apple Podcasts
➡️ Spotify

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‘The Leader as Healer’ (Business Book of the year 2023) – An interview with Nicolas Janni

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‘A transformational read that every leader of today needs’.

These were the words Head Judge, Jacq Burns used when she announced that ‘Leader As Healer’, written by Nicholas Janni was selected as the overall winner for the 2023 Business Book Awards.

In his book, Nicolas Janni argues that we need a new leadership model to address the challenges our society faces.

Our current leadership model is one where we see great leaders as warriors ‘on the battlefield of relentless competition’, who drive action, pursue instrumental (shareholder value related) goals, and maintain transactional relationships.

Instead, Nicholas Janni pleads for leaders who are empathetic, intuitive, present, skilled in mindfulness and deep listening, and who can inspire colleagues to engage and collaborate.

In this episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I discuss with Nicholas:

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How NOT to select participants for a Leadership Development program

Dirk Verburg1 Comment

I recently heard an HR leader proudly explain her rigorous selection process for a basic leadership program aimed at newly appointed people leaders. She first pre-selected potential participants based on their performance ratings, then personally interviewed all the top performers. Those who passed were sent by her for a final interview with a senior business leader, and only the successful candidates were allowed to attend the training.

While I appreciated her personal involvement and the engagement of the business leader in the selection process, I do not think this is the right approach.

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